I haven’t seen many share this view in my social circles, but I thought this might be a helpful biblical take to share for those who have been wondering about this but have not made the effort to look into it yet. At best I want to give you something to think about. I will try make this as short as possible.

The most popular view is called eternal conscious torment – physically suffering for eternity.. I do not agree with this view because it actually doesn’t have as much backing from the bible as we think. My view is typically called Conditional Immortality.

So let’s go through it biblically.

First we ought to mention that man was made from dust according to Gen 2:7. This would indicate that man was mortal. After God blew the breath of life into man he became a living soul (Hebrew word “nefesh”).

Something important to note, being a nefesh is not what makes man different from the animals since the fish in the sea also gets called nefesh Gen 1:21. Fish were not made to live forever and neither was man, this doesn’t mean it was not God’s plan for man though. Why talk about this? Because we assume the soul is this invisible part of us that lives forever, this is not the case biblically. Christians got the idea that a soul is naturally immortal from the Greek philosophy of Plato.

But let’s go on with scripture.

God then plants a garden within Eden and then puts the man He made there(Gen 2:8). The tree of life was in the garden with the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In Gen 2:17 God warns man that if he eats from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he will surely die.

We know they ate from the tree and then from Gen 3:22-24 God says man knowing good and evil may not eat from the tree of life because they will then live forever. They are driven from Eden and cherubs stand guard around the tree of life.

Since man sinned He was not allowed to eat from the tree of life to live forever.

I thought it is good to start at the beginning. But when we speak of hell, what does it say in the Old Testament?

Psalm 37:

1.Fret not yourself because of evildoers be not envious of wrongdoers!  2 For they will soon fade like the grass and wither like the green herb.

9 For the evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait for the Lord shall inherit the land.10 In just a little while, the wicked will be no more; though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there.

20 But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

35 I have seen a wicked, ruthless man, spreading himself like a green laurel tree.36 But he passed away, and behold, he was no more; though I sought him, he could not be found.

Notice what happens to the wicked – Fade like grass, wither, cut off, will be no more, will not be, perish, vanish away, pass away, cannot be found.

New Testament verse that we know so well for example ;

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Notice the contrast to eternal life is not eternal hell, but instead to perish.

Let us hit the three main verses usually used to prove eternal conscious torment.

Matthew 25:45-46 ESV

[45] Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ [46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Here it seems to say what we are used to hearing. But let us just consider what and how this language works before we assume our familiar theological filters.The word punishment is a noun, not a verb. We typically treat it as if it is a verb, as if it is using the word “punishing”. But as it is punishment, it is more like a death sentence, a punishment with an eternal consequence.

Let us compare Mat 25 with Heb 9:12  He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Again here he says eternal redemption, not eternal redeeming. If it said redeeming, it would mean we are never truly redeemed. So the same language is being used with eternal punishment. 

Note I am not saying no one will be punished for a time, I am simply saying it will not be eternally an ongoing process.

The 2nd proof text for eternal conscious torment comes from the book of Revelation;

⁹ And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, ¹⁰ he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. ¹¹ And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

If we are at all serious about the text we have to compare texts from Revelation to other parts of the bible that use the same language, because this is what John did. He threw all the symbolic type language of the old testament together and wrote Revelation. 

The language comes from Isa 34: 

And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into sulfur; her land shall become burning pitch.^z0 Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up forever.

From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it forever and ever.

¹¹ But the hawk and the porcupine shall possess it, the owl and the raven shall dwell in it.

He shall stretch the line of confusion over it, and the plumb line of emptiness.

Here Isaiah speaks about Edom, a physical place in our history. He mentions burning, sulfur, day and night, smoke going up forever and ever. If this was a literal forever and ever then the hawk, porcupine, owl and raven would not be able to occupy a place that keeps burning. 

Note that it says “it cannot be quenched” means it cannot be put out, this doesn’t mean it won’t go out. The forever and ever speaks of the finality of the judgment or destruction.

Another example of this is in Jude:

⁷ just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Compared with 2 Pet 2:

⁴ For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; ⁵ if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; ⁶ if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; ⁷ and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked ⁸ (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); ⁹ then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,

Eternal fire is compared to Sodom and Gomorrah. 2 Pet 2 says the result is extinction and that it is an example of what will happen to the ungodly.

3rd Proof text is Rev 20:

⁹ And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, ¹⁰ and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Note here that in verse 9 they are consumed, this is speaking of the nations coming against the saints. But then speaking of the devil, beast and false prophet, they will be tormented(verb used) day and night forever and ever.

The short explanation of how this view works is the following.

You get the intermediate state, the place people go after they die physically. This would be either the grave, sheol, the pit, Hades for the condemned and heaven, Abraham’s bosom, the cloud for those that are saved.

Then there is the eternal state where the judgment is made on the condemned where they are punished for a time if appropriate and then are destroyed. The saved ones experience the kingdom fully manifested as new heavens and earth is actualised.

This is the shortest I could write this. Questions are welcome as I might write a more in depth study on this if need be.

Being in pentecostal and charismatic churches from a young age I heard people quote this verse in a positive sense :

Matthew 11:12-13

[12] From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. [13] For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John

You might be thinking, why not see this positively? Well, first because we do honour Gods word and we use context. One of the main accusations against the pentecostal/charismatics camps are that they don’t know the word of God, but instead use verses for whatever they want.

So let us not do that? Let’s use the first good practice when reading bible, check audience relevance! He is speaking about the prophets, law and John the baptist to the Jews.

Secondly time period is from John the baptist until now, as in now when Jesus stood and said what He said. We can’t pull that now into our now.

The verses just before this :

Matthew 11:11

[11] Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

So the point was made that the least in the kingdom is greater than John. There is so far no positive point we can gather from kingdom being taken with violence. John was the first prophet who announced the kingdom is at hand. The Jews wanted a Messiah that would rule and conquer the romans, so when they hear the kingdom is here, they do not understand what you and I do regarding the kingdom and it’s spiritual reality, instead they sought a physical ruler ship. This is why John said :

John 6:15

[15] Perceiving then that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself.

Note that the word “force” being used. That is the nature of old covenant Israel. They want to make Jesus king physically so to beat the enemies. Jesus comes and beats the enemies, defeats satan and death by dying on the cross then rising from the grave. He then imparts to us that very Spirit that gave Him victory

Not forgetting he said : Luke 17:21

[21] nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

We are not to take the kingdom violently or by force since it is already within us

If we want verses that talk about attacking or being on the offense against the enemy, we could use : Matthew 16:18

[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Gates are something you attack and break open and you can do that and win since the kingdom of God is in you!

The are camps in the institutional church and outside that hold to a false sovereignty concept.

The concept simply is that God determined or controls everything that happens. It usually gets defended with statements that says if He doesn’t control and determine everything then He isn’t God or they make His controlling and determining everything make Him seem more glorious.

But what do you become when you determine or control everything someone does? A puppet master! And if you explain it in a way that it seem less directly controlling but make it seem more glorious, then you still get a puppet master, but a glorious one.

If we believe God has a relationship with us and we with Him, then this controlling and determining will not make sense. If you have a God that has feelings, who can get angry, who gets grieved, repents and changes His mind, then you cannot have a puppet master God.

‘But God never changes’ you might think, yes, He doesn’t change in character, but He can change His mind, just ask Abraham, Moses and Jonah for example.

Another problem with God being in total control is that all blame also goes to Him, all the worlds evil. Theologians have been trying to marry God controlling everything without Him being the cause of evil for many years – no logic reasoning will work that out.

A son does not glorify his father by exempting himself from all responsibility or accountability, instead he embraces it and sees it as an amazing privilege(bible calls it grace). So why try put it all on the Father? Give Him glory for the privilege, but then take accountability for it.

The bible doesn’t say we have nothing to do with our salvation, it says we can’t attain it by law(dead work), instead we get it by faith. Faith is something we walk by! It means you trust something(Someone) enough to take action on it.

I don’t know about you, but I want to live in response to the Father, have Jesus see the reward of His suffering through my life lived! Actual life lived out, not metaphorical victory, not just spiritual life hidden for no one to see, but a light shining for all to see inside you and me! Jesus is real, not just a book or a doctrine we idolize.

Take what He is giving you and shine!

~Carlo Merrick

So many people have heard parts of Romans 9 only or heard a reformed theology teaching on it that ignored the context. This simply means they heard a message that Gods controls everything and everyone and you can’t ask questions about it.

The highlight verse for this is :

‭Romans 9:20 ESV‬

But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

So why I think this is funny, if this scripture means God controls everyone, then it means He determined that the person who is asking “why” would ask why, so it is like God has a puppet in His hand and it playes out like this :

God : I have made you my puppet.

Puppet : Why have you made me a puppet?

God : how dare you ask me that!

See how funny this is.

That is why you need to read the context and not just lend your sensemaking to your favourite reformed preacher.

Ever think what the purpose of this tree was? I mean why put it there in the garden? The bible says God does not tempt anyone, so God did not put the tree there as a temptation.

God told them not to eat from that tree.

“The LORD God commanded the man, saying, ‘You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.’” (Genesis 2:16-17)

With some temptation from the serpent(the devil) we know where it went.

“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.” (Genesis 3:6)

But then they received knowledge after eating.

“Then the LORD God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil.’” (Genesis 3:22b-24)

Note that they didn’t receive knowledge that was not of God, since God has the same knowing of what is good and evil, I mean He created the tree. The tree itself was not evil, it was the temptation that came with the lie that they trusted in that was evil.

“But they were already like God” you might think, yes, but not in knowledge. They were made in His image, in innocence and purity.

But see also where knowledge of good and evil pops up in the bible.

“And your servant thought, ‘The word of my lord the king will set me at rest,’ for my lord the king is like the angel of God to discern good and evil. The Lord your God be with you!” (2 Samuel 14:17)

“He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.” (Isaiah 7:15)

Many preachers today try to steer their message to a place so that people should live free from the knowledge of good and evil. But it seems to contradict the other verses in the word that seem to encourage that knowledge.

But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:14)

I believe God put that tree in the garden so that men & women could learn instead of partake. They ate from the tree while not being mature, so in that state its consequence was death. There is wisdom in knowing who we are and at the same time knowing who we are not.

But the serpent(devil) tempts men and women to know evil before they can stand against it with truth within themselves. The lair will always start the temptation with something personal, about you, what you haven’t attained, how you fall short and how to fix it yourself.

God invites you to stand on His word, drink from the living water He put inside you, eat from the tree of life(Jesus) and grow in Him. Let Him show you and train you to know the difference between good and evil, you don’t need to partake in everything before you know if it is evil or not. Trust Him enough to show you, what He attained for you is enough, that we can personally identify with.

He is not here to tempt you, instead He wants to walk with you in the kingdom. Partaking means trust.

Your love for pets is no substitute for loving people.

You might be choosing pets over people because you have let what people do or don’t do determine the love you carry.

Don’t love with your own strength. Love with the same love that the Son of love does. He so loved the world that He gave.

He made the decision, He counted the cost and He thought it was worth it, it was never about the people deserving love by what they did or didn’t do.

Count the cost then love. If the cost is too hight to love anyone, then you need to receive the love of God, know that you can’t deserve it, come and take freely.

Of course, take as good care as you can of animals, they are part of creation, but they are no substitute for the love God through your life to the ones made in His image.

The New Covenant is not to inherit land. It is to get eternal inheritance.

‭Hebrews 9:14-15

how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Eternal inheritance is about being close with God, in love, clean, justified and glorified. If we want to chase the old covenant promises, then we need to ignore the following:

‭Hebrews 8:7-13

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

First, Israel should know the old covenant is being done away with and new one made through Christ since they were the ones the old covenant was made with. Then through Christ all are included as He calls all from every nation as the new covanent is made through Him.

If we hold to an old covenant while we believe Christ, we try hold the unfulfilled and the fulfilled simultaneously. We try use the perspective of those who were looking for a heavenly country while we are in it since the kingdom has come.

Let us move on to better things?

‭Hebrews 9:23-24

Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

When we focus on what not to do and disqualifying people for not doing what is right, we are not helping people be authentic. Even scripture gives us the concept to be hot or cold, worst thing is to be lukewarm.

Lukewarm is the place of lying to yourself and others about the state of being you are in.

Also when we try “do” right, speak right, dress right, eat right out of a place of lack within ourselves then we are operating via shame. This is not a life giving or transforming force. But instead it is a tormenting state where you have to suffer in order to appear to be ok. If you want to be more or be better, it shows that you have had at least a glimpse of Gods idea for you, since you are made in His image.

Start with being ok now. Whether you are spiritually cold or hot. Be ok, you are enough. If you can let God love you, you will turn hot, because He can warm you with His love. From this place, doing the “right” things is part of who you are, not dead works to try quiet the shame of falling short.

We all fell short, but then Jesus came. Feeling all the shortcomings of man within His body. He understands, it’s ok. Hebrews tells us we have a High priest that sympathises with us in our shortcomings.

He is our reason to heal. Forget the people’s opinions who just tells you to what you are not. Be ok with you, because Jesus saw the present you and died for you. Also what He died for has released the potential for you to walk in more than you ever have before.

Be ok and heal.

We tend to say : I need to get back on the straight and narrow. In another way we are saying we need to get our act together. God doesn’t desire for you to “act” like you love Him or act like you are a saint. The straight and narrow is Jesus! Not the things you say and do or don’t. It is from a place of being with Him that you do His works.

It is from a place of healing that do the works, it is a priviledge. Religion has put a veil of shame over doing godly works or the lack thereof. He knocks at your door, if you let Consuming Fire Himself in, you will burn with Him. See less

I have preached & taught on our identity in Christ for a few years now, how it includes not just healing and prophecy, but the being, as in your perspective of yourself and of God. Walking in the supernatural, so it includes the way we live when we are all by ourselves and how we love others.

Yet recently I discovered how I missed things within myself that was not healed.

I read a secular book from a psychologist on some things I never heard the church talk about. I realised in our religious mindsets we were wired to profess healing and new life while ignoring anything that might resemble the opposite. When I say ignore, I mean we train our self to act like is not there.

But what if we admit that there are some things inside us that might still be broken? Does it mean Christ failed in healing us? No ways. Through Christ we are/were healed. Isaiah 53:5, 1 Pet 2:24

It means we have the Source Himself to withdraw from. Many physical healings I have seen through my own ministry happened when I made people aware of their pain, rather than being ok with just hearing the religiously saying “I believe I am healed” to me and then I walk away.

When they admit their pain or sickness in their body, I saw God heal them right there as I shared Gods heart with them! Then they can be real about their healing as well, which was awesome.

Back to the soul. If we can take ownership of what is broken, then Christ can come heal. If our confidence is truly in Him always being the healer, then we can go to Him confidently with our broken pieces.

I want to add, not all ministries that focus on the soul getting free actually helps. Shortly after I read the book and started trusting God for healing, a person in ministry gave me a prophetic word regarding this broken piece in me and how God is turning it around, in so doing showing me the Healers plan. This was helpful. Another ministry person called out the broken piece in me and blamed a spirit for the trauma, then prayed for deliverance. This was not helpful, since it only highlighted the issue and the need for this persons ministry in order to be free. There was no ownership encouraged for what I needed healing from, instead it was just some other spirit or the devils fault who caused the brokenness(which means it can happen again).

I’m thankful that I was already walking out healing with God, so I knew what to do with the negative info about me.

Lastly, taking ownership has been great since I could tell my wife(who needs to live with me and everything I come with) that I found the issue and solution to things that has had a negative impact on her for 14 years.

Taking ownership is powerful, Christ was our example. He took ownership of our sin(because He had none) so there could be healing to receive His righteousness.

We don’t always realise, when we as Gods representatives don’t take ownership of the broken things in us, then the people around us who experience the outflow of what is in us will think it is God doing it to them through you. That is not representing Him well.

Take ownership, so God can give you your own freedom & healing.

 Your family will praise God with you.

Reading that first statement might have made you twitch. Here’s the next one :

Christ taught me to fail successfully.

Read this passage with me.

For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
John 10:17‭-‬18 ESV

Christ says the Father loves Him because He lays down His life. We know how unfair the events were that lead up to the point of the crucifiction.Also worth noting is that Christ knew He has the power to lay it down(think about that) and also the power to take it back up.

Many of us have only received a gospel where we win, get breakthroughs and blessings. We teach our kids the same, there is no losing, saying something is hard or even uttering anything negative is a big no no. The problem with this is that we don’t learn how to actually deal with situations and circumstances that are hard or even unfair at times via the faith God works through us.

Where should the focus be? God, right? Yes, not on our victory. Because it is His victory, His blessing, His finished works working through us.

If we focus on OUR victory we are trying to achieve, selfishness and the flesh can take control there and by partnering with that, we will manipulate and trample other people around us for the sake of our victory.

Teaching our kids what they carry is far more powerful through love than cheering them on to feel affirmed only because the got what they wanted or attained what you as parent wanted for them. You know why so many parents refuse to have their kids lose at something? Because the parents don’t really know who they are. You have to know Who you carry before you realize you have the power to lay yourself down.

Maybe some child suicides could be prevented if kids knew how to lose successfully. Because then they will know, it is not about just getting what they want, but that their life and destiny is much bigger than what they are facing right now.

The ultimate is when God gets what He wants, because His nature is love. He wants to pick us up and comfort us, heal us, free us and give us hope. But we have to partner with Him to receive that.

We have His incorruptible seed in us if we have received Him, therefore we have the ability to overcome. So we will through His strength. But if we have learned to lose successfully, then winning also loses the buzz we get. Instead our heart will be filled with thankfulness for the faithfulness of God through our life.

Losing successfully is knowing inside you, you have the ability through Christ to do anything but using the ability to serve, lay ourselves down for the sake of love, still fully knowing He will lift our heads, comfort and promote.

It’s about His agenda. If we seek to accomplish our own in His name then we will wrap religious language around our agenda and manipulate people into our mission(the thing some of us need healing from since others have done this to us).

You can win, have breakthroughs and be blessed, but only because you already are in Christ. The kingdom is within you, don’t seek it out there, don’t just seek it with outer observance. This will make seeking the kingdom first make more sense before all these things will be added unto you.

It is how the kingdom works –
For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Matthew 16:25 ESV